Any other VERY HUNGRY veg*ns out there have trouble feeling full?

Jenni
Bento-ing from: Marietta › Georgia › USA
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
User offline. Last seen 3 years 46 weeks ago.

I just got this http://www.paperchase.co.uk/p/472804/lunch-box-enchantment-design.html box from Borders, and while it is quite large (almost 4 cups!) and I am one who definitely needs to use bento to control my diet, I actually am pleased with the size. I am a vegan-leaning vegetarian, for 2+ years now so it's not like I drastically changed my diet recently, and lately I simply can not reach a point of satiety. I pack a healthy amount (1 cup of brown rice, about 1/2 cup of beans or occasionally tofu, and some veggies and fruit) into a 2.5ish box I have, but this just isn't cutting it. I find myself still starving which leads to mad snacking, which is causing me to get even fatter. So I was thrilled with the size of this box, but today I filled it with 1 cup of brown rice, 1/4 cup vegetarian baked beans, 1/4 cup shelled edamame, a little more than 1/2 cup carrot kinpira (my latest addiction!), about 1/2 cup of cauliflower I didn't finish because I just couldn't stand it, and a kiwi for dessert. I ate a bit late due to a family emergency throwing the whole day off, and I'm still famished. What can I do?!? Should I increase to 1.5 cups of brown rice? I think that and a full cup of beans would probably bring me closer to feeling satisfied, but I need to lose 60 lbs ASAP, which won't happen without a bit of calorie control. I need help!!!

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maki
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Re: Any other VERY HUNGRY veg*ns out there have trouble ...

(standard disclaimer: I am not a medical professional or nutritionist or dietician and I'm not even vegan, though I do eat a lot of vegan meals)

It sort of looks like your menu is heavy on the carbs and vegetables, though edamame has some protein. Do you use any oil? I know that we are taught to be afraid of oil but it does help you feel satisfied after a meal, I've found. Use a little olive oil to sauté your vegetables and so on and see if that makes a difference. (Be sure to measure how much you're using though, so you keep track of your calories.)

Nuts are a great source of protein, good oil and fiber - try adding a few to your diet. Raw almonds are really filling I find. Pecans are good too. At the moment I'm eating a pretty low-carb diet, but trying to stay away from animal proteins as much as I can, and nuts are really a lifesaver as a snack when I'm really hungry. Eating about 10 almonds in the middle of the afternoon keeps me going until dinner time. Add a few raisins to the mix if you want something sweet. Sesame seeds and other seeds (sunflower, pumpkin, etc.) can be used in moderation also.

____________________________________

The Big Onigiri.

- Wherever you go, there you are. -

RoseFaery
Re: Any other VERY HUNGRY veg*ns out there have trouble ...

Well, I'm not a vegan, but I am a pesco-vegetarian, which means I eat a vegetarian diet, but sometimes include fish and shellfish. Which can make bentos tricky. ^_^

I agree with Maki, more carbs is not the way to go. Studies show that soup is very filling, and other high water content dishes, stews, curries, and such, and though not really practical for bento, if you are trying to diet, they would be good for other meals. Warm foods are usually more filling to the mind.
Studies have also shown that if you are used to eating a dessert after a meal, when on a diet if you deny yourself a dessert totally, you may eat more in the course of the day, because your brain is not getting the trigger that the meal is over.
A little bit of sweet can go a long way. One of my favorite sweet treats is a delicious spread called Nutella. It does contain a bit of milk and whey, so not quite vegan. But a whole lot better for you than a donut or a candy bar.
From the website: http://www.nutellausa.com/index.html
• Over 50 Hazelnuts per 13 oz. Jar
• Contains No Artificial Colors
• Contains No Artificial Preservatives
Ingredients: sugar, modified palm oil, hazelnuts, cocoa, skim milk, reduced minerals whey (from milk), soy lecithin: an emulsifier, vanillin: an artificial flavor.
It's very rich and just a couple teaspoons is usually all I need. I eat it plain, or on bread or fruit.

Kinda just turned into a Nutella ad... lol Sorry.

But, another good point, high fiber fills you quickly, and since the whole nation is on a fiber kick right now, you can get great tasting things with fiber, not just bran. (bran can be tasty, too though)

A tasty filling trail mix can be made of some nuts, dried fruits, tasty high fiber cereal, and maybe a few chocolate chips. (For this I prefer the mini chips) Tuck a handful or so in your bento for snacking, and if lunch gets delayed, you have something on hand.

Just make sure to try new things, watch the calories, and remember that if you go off diet a little it doesn't mean you have to jump headfirst into a tub of ice cream, just do better on your next meal. Good luck and feel free to email me at ravenfaery [at] valornet [dot] com if you have any questions.

bronwyncarlisle
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Bento-ing from: Dunedin › New Zealand
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Re: Any other VERY HUNGRY veg*ns out there have trouble ...

60lb is a lot, and your ASAP should be a year at least! You are going to have to be very patient.

Many people find that smaller meals more often are better for weight loss, but you do have to get used to the idea that you will feel hungry sometimes. It's normal. Feeling satiated is not a requirement at the end of a meal - it's a good idea never to eat quite that much. But also try not to get to the point of feeling starving - that's likely to make you gorge, which is counterproductive. A little snack in the afternoon when you are beginning to feel peckish as Maki suggests is a great idea. Sureslim (expensive but effective) include pumpkin-, sunflower-, and flax-seeds in varying proportions in their clients' diets, generally a tablespoon or two of each per day, so I'd definitely use a little of them in salads and snacks if I were you.

I'm no nutritionist either, but do make sure you eat enough protein and good fats (olive oil, avocado, the above-mentioned seeds, things like that) - they help you to feel full, and they are absolutely necessary for health.

____________________________________

Bronwyn

My blog is Food and Shoes

Jenni
Bento-ing from: Marietta › Georgia › USA
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
User offline. Last seen 3 years 46 weeks ago.
Re: Any other VERY HUNGRY veg*ns out there have trouble ...

I don't usually eat dessert, but I do reserve the end of meal slot for very sweet fruits. Same idea, but usually fewer calories and at least the sugar is all naturally occurring. I've thought about packing a small slice of cake in a side dish, but that's really not a habit I want to get into, seeing as I'm trying to shed a few pounds.

It really drives me crazy when people who are neither nutritionists nor vegetarians who have at least done a lot of research on vegan/ vegetarian nutrition enter threads like this with advice to both "cut back on carbs" and "make sure you get enough protein!" That is quite frankly one of the most unintelligent things I have ever heard. It is impossible to compartmentalize fat, carbs, and protein in a vegan diet, or even the non-meat portion of an omnivorous diet. Grains, legumes, vegetables and fruits are all comprised of all three as well as vitamins and minerals. The food I listed from the meal that left me still ravenous, excluding the inedible cauliflower, amounted to 500 calories and at least 15 grams of protein, which is about 22% of the 70ish grams I supposedly need, if you go by standard recommendations. There is some research lately into the idea that we don't really need even that much, but even if we go with the standard school of thought, 22% is about right for one meal.

It's also pretty insulting to say that the absolute fastest I could possibly lose 60 lbs is "a year at least!" You know nothing about me or my lifestyle. Don't assume that everyone who wants to lose weight is going to do so by slightly changing her eating habits yet continuing to sit around on her fat butt all day long. Also, you don't even know exactly how fat I am. 60 lbs is more than half a person on someone 5' tall but significantly less on someone 6' tall. On which end of the spectrum do I fall? How quickly do I tend to lose weight when I make the effort? Oh right, you have no f-ing idea!

I hope someone who actually follows a vegan-ish diet, or who has at least researched it extensively, can come in here with some useful advice. The whole point here is that 3.5 cups of grains, legumes, vegetables, and fruit amounting to 500 calories did not ease my hunger. I've tried eating a handful of nuts or whatever as a snack and it doesn't do $#!t. I need to find ways to add bulky, VEGAN, nutrient rich foods *that taste good* while keeping the calorie count low.

maki
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Bento-ing from: somewhere › France
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Re: Any other VERY HUNGRY veg*ns out there have trouble ...

Hi Jenni,

I understand your frustration regarding your weight loss efforts. I've been there - am still there- myself. As I clearly stated in my reply, I eat a mostly vegetarian diet these days bordering on vegan, and I have faced hunger pains and such myself, and tried to deal with them in various ways. To tell me and the other people who have replied to you with the best of intentions and trying to be helpful, and telling them their advice is insulting is in itself is quite aggressive and rude. It's fine to disagree with someone, but it's not at all fine to be so confrontational.

The forums here have always been friendly and civil, and we want to keep it that way.

Thank you for your understanding. If you have a problem with this policy let me know.

bronwyncarlisle
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Bento-ing from: Dunedin › New Zealand
Joined: 12 Jan 2009
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Re: Any other VERY HUNGRY veg*ns out there have trouble ...

I'm very sorry if I offended you, that was not the intention.

You may very well be able to lose 60 lb in much less than a year, but it IS generally accepted that fast weight loss is not healthy, and is far more likely to be put right back on afterwards. Most nutritionists seem to recommend a pound a week as a reasonably healthy achievable target, and that is more than a year for 60 lb. It doesn't make much difference whether you are really tall and slightly overweight or really short and obese. A short and obese person should be able to safely lose weight quite a bit faster than that to start off with, but the weight gets much harder to lose after a little while. A good friend of mine (who is short) used Sureslim a couple of years ago to try to get from ~110kg to 80kg, a loss of a little more than 60lb. She lost huge amounts to start with, 2kg some weeks, but it averaged out at about 1/2 kg (~1lb) a week over the long term. She didn't quite make it to her target either!

When I say carb, protein and fat, I'm referring to the nutrients themselves, not the foods that contain them. Even meat contains some carbohydrate in the form of glycogen.

As far as protein and fat go, you seem to have ignored the part of what both Maki and I said about them making you feel full. You are quite correct that we don't need to eat enormous amounts of protein or fat for health, but we do need to eat some. On the other hand, we don't actually NEED to eat any carbohydrates at all; they only provide energy and we can get all the energy we need from protein and fat if necessary. So if you are trying to cut back on total calories it makes a certain amount of sense to eat those calories in the form that makes you feel fullest, don't you think? Foods that are richer in protein, fibre, and fat do that. I'm not saying don't eat carbs, but you can cut them down quite a lot while you're trying to lose weight.

I'm familiar with the vegan diet, although I don't follow it myself. I've cooked for vegans often. When I say eat more protein, I mean eat something like lentils instead of rice in a dish, getting a higher proportion of protein to carb in the bulkier foods. If you are going to eat "straight" carbs eat high fibre ones - brown rice has more fibre than white (3.4% as opposed to 1.4% according to CalorieKing), but it still doesn't have a huge amount. I was part of a study a while ago that was comparing a high fibre/high protein diet with a normal one, and the high fibre people had to eat bulghur wheat instead of rice. It has much more fibre (18%, again according to the CalorieKing database). The results of the study, by the way, were that high fibre/high protein turns out to be good for losing weight and good for reducing type 2 diabetes.

And I may not be a nutritionist, but I AM a biochemist and I do have a pretty good grounding in what nutrients are necessary and what they all do.

Loretta
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Bento-ing from: London › UK
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Re: Any other VERY HUNGRY veg*ns out there have trouble ...

I was a vegetarian for over ten years, but this was before the internet was around so I did my research the old fashioned way with resources that I would now be suspicious of.

If you haven't seen this thread already I'd like to point you to c-helle's comments
http://justbento.com/forum/bento-life
This is a real life example that may explain some of the comments you've objected to.

I personally see a lot of useful advice in this thread you've created. The sureslim idea of adding seeds to a diet is something you could try for yourself very easily by adding a zakkokumai style mix to your rice - linseed/flax, buckwheat, sesame, amaranth, quinoa, millet, poppy seeds and even sunflower and pumpkin seeds (although I would cut or grind these last two). For myself, I find that a cup of rice with a tablespoon of added seeds/grains is more filling than rice alone. You might even like to try adding a spoon of oats to your rice (oats are well known for releasing energy slowly helping you feel 'full' for longer - a breakfast of soy milk oat porridge and fruit could be an ideal way to start your day).

From experience rather than research I find that different grains affect my appetite in different ways. But I also suspect that your (and by 'your' I mean 'my') body changes in the way it 'perceives' the food. For instance, only a small portion of quinoa would make me feel quite full. However, I can now eat larger quantities of quinoa easily. You may want to try different grains and keep changing often.
So some alternatives to brown rice might be the bulgar wheat that Bronwyn mentioned, quinoa, barley cous cous and buckwheat grouts or buckwheat noodles (although I'd suggest keeping the buckwheat noodle cooking water and using it for something like bread making as it is high in B vitamins).
These are all foods that I myself enjoy and find to be convenient and tasty and, importantly, filling.
This recipe (without the smoked salmon, obviously) is a perfect way to have delicious vegan soba noodles. I'd suggest more cucumber and some avocado slices to replace the salmon. You can halve the amount of sugar and it's still very good
http://www.savoryjapan.com/recipes/salad/soba.smoked.salmon.salad.html

I'm not sure how realistic it is to expect that a magic bento combination will keep you feeling satisfied. I'd concentrate more on the snacking and accept that I do it.
Best way I know of to curb hunger is with home made bread. I find that a bread machine allows me to incorporate all kinds of grains and other pulses and vegetables, seeds and nuts into my diet as well as the vitamin rich cooking water from boiling vegetables. I can even make healthy combinations that are sweetened with maple syrup and fresh or dried fruits. Sweet or savoury, it's ideal snacking food.

maki
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Re: Any other VERY HUNGRY veg*ns out there have trouble ...

Loretta, I think that points out that 1. we are all different and 2. our bodies' reactions to food may depend as much on psychological factors as physical. Like, I can't stop myself at just 1 slice often when it come to bread, even whole grain. Not even pumpernickel, which I don't even like that much. White bread is the worst, even including steamed buns or bread. It just doesn't seem to send the right signals to my brain. On the other hand, whole grains and even white rice can make me full much faster. It may all be tied up to some childhood memories or something - bread was rarely the center of a meal, except for breakfast, but rice often was even when we weren't living in Japan.

Loretta
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Re: Any other VERY HUNGRY veg*ns out there have trouble ...

I agree Maki. I'm not sure there is any definitive answer as how 'full' someone feels often has so little to do with any scientific reasons nor can it be backed by any amount of common research. I've shared my own personal experiences with feeling sated (which include a degree of my husband's).

The kind of bread I had in mind that will sate both of us (and what we've fallen back on when we've been extremely strapped for cash) is something like wholemeal bread with chickpeas, olive oil and garlic (Bread makers can deal with very heavy combinations). We find we feel stuffed after one sandwich made from this kind of bread. White breads just don't have the same effect.

There was a time whilst I was vegetarian that I was afflicted with Bell's Palsy and I had to take quite large doses of corticosteroids. The side effects of these drugs affected my appetite tremendously so that I spent at least a couple of months (seemed a very, very long time!) with insatiable hunger. During this time I could have eaten without a break for 24 hours every day (I wasn't sleeping either) and was miserable when I wasn't swallowing something. In order to deal with it I packaged food early in the morning into individual portions that I would allow myself to eat strictly only on the hour (stodgy filling foods like fried potatoes or pies/pastries - the only ones that would truly satisfy me), and on the half hour (fruit/raw vegetables). My tastebuds were also affected by the paralysis so only foods with strong flavours like grapefruit or bell peppers could be tasted. I don't think I'll ever forget what it was like to be so hungry and how much of a slave I was to my viciously unrelenting appetite. Unfortunately, my closest friends also had to deal with some nasty hunger related mood swings. It was a kind of hell and I still feel greatly privileged to have escaped from it. Whilst I doubt that the original poster here is experiencing anything like the level of hunger I had, my sympathies are with anyone who has to deal with persistent hunger of any degree.

Slow
Re: Any other VERY HUNGRY veg*ns out there have trouble ...

"Like, I can't stop myself at just 1 slice often when it come to bread, even whole grain."

When I changed my diet, I thought I'd have the most trouble with potato chips. For me, a bag was one serving. Didn't matter what size bag.

But I started weighing my potato chips, and rationing myself to one ounce a day. I had no trouble with that.

Now, whenever you slay problem number one, problem number two gets promoted. For me, problem number two was a surprise: cheese. No cheese is safe around me. I can't have it in the house--if it's here, I'll eat half a pound in a heartbeat.

--
Slow

Slow
Re: Any other VERY HUNGRY veg*ns out there have trouble ...

"It sort of looks like your menu is heavy on the carbs and vegetables"

I'm pretty sure that the rice and beans alone have about 65g carbohydrate. If I remember diabetic school correctly, that's on pace if you weigh about 190 lbs, and you don't want to lose weight. That is, three meals a day, each containing 60g carbohydrate, plus two snacks a day of 15g carbs each, will allow a 190 lb person to maintain that weight. (As a rule of thumb.)

When I eat rice and beans together, I usually eat half a cup of rice and a quarter cup of beans. The rest of my carbs usually come from raw fruit and vegetables. Raw vegetables are more filling than cooked vegetables. Another rule of thumb from diabetic school: two cups of raw veggies averages 15g of carbs. (So that same 190 lb person could eat 8 cups of raw veggies to get 60g of carbohydrate. Frankly, I can't eat that much.)

Protein and fats slow down your stomach, which turns out to have some important, beneficial side effects.

--
Slow

Re: Any other VERY HUNGRY veg*ns out there have trouble ...

another vegan here and always hungry too ;-P

i noticed that fat is very important for me, especially in winter.
i may use raw oils, i may have something fried in my lunch, but if i don't have fats, i start craving.
a hearty hot soup helps too (not broth, rich soup)

and paking a lighter lunch BUT adding a treat box to eat around 4pm with a cuppa tea ;-P

btw: i discovered that often i think i feel hungry, but i simply have an acidic stomach due to stress or else.
i started using a kind of "clay" drink my MD suggested, and it works miracles.
i discovered that half of my hunger is not hunger at all, give it a try ;-P

FranChan
Joined: 28 Sep 2010
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Re: Any other VERY HUNGRY veg*ns out there have trouble ...

I'm not a nutritionist nor a vegan but I will be a doctor (MD) in 10months time and also have plenty of experience with diets etc.

1st off well done you for starting off with the weight loss and having a goal! It's hard and I know myself how much willpower it takes when the road ahead looks so hard! :)

Second of all have you ever heard of slimming world? It has literally changed my life and the way I look at food! As you are a veggie I will omit 'red days' from the explination I'm about to attempt ;)

So... On an average day you can have:

As much fruit and veg as you want - this includes things like bananas and sweetcorn! Some fruits are considered better than others and help speed weight loss e.g. Berries

As much pasta, rice or noodles as you want - yes, I am being serious! I recommend brown or wholegrain versions if possible as this also helps weight loss :)

As many potatoes, beans and eggs as you like. This includes beans in tomato sauce! (baked beans)

As many fat free yoghurts as you like! (no jokes... I was eating 1/2 litre of yoghurt a day at one point!!)

Then, you choose from the following:

2 healthy A choices: these are your carb choices and For example 1 HEXA (healthy a choice) is 2 slices of wholemeal bread or a bowl of cereal or 2 low fat musli bars

2 healthy B choices: these are your dairy choices and can be e.g. 350ml semiskimmed milk or a portion of cheese

Then, if you have any room, lol, you can also have up to 15 'syns' a day. I often use mine for adding a little oil to my food or for e.g. An extra slice of bread or some butter :) but you can use them for candy too! A mars bar for example is 14 syns.

Now, I apologise if I haven't adapted this entirely to a vegan diet I just put all the info in there!

And before anyone says 'that can't ever work!' it does!! I loose 3-4 lbs/ week when I'm on plan. And that's without additional exercise! And I am not a big girl! I weigh 170lbs and am about 12lbs off my ideal weight but am very curvy and have never been 'skinny' (very similar shape to Marilyn Monroe) at one point in the diet I was eating 2 bananas a day, 1 litre of fat free yoghurt with sweetener plus 3 full meals and still dropping 4lbs in a week! It's all about reeducation and eating healthy wholesome foods and cutting overprocessed rubbish out of the diet! (including White bread :()

Check out a local meeting in your area maybe as they are all over the world and are fantastic!

Www.minimins.com also has a brilliant support section for SW :) as for the 60lbs goal: with this plan and some regular exercise I think 6-8 months would be a very reasonable and realistic target :)

____________________________________

Om nom nom

tryst
Re: Any other VERY HUNGRY veg*ns out there have trouble ...

I hate to barge in and sound nit-picky, but there's no such thing as "not quite vegan". Things are either vegan or they are not. These dietary choices are exclusive, one cannot be vegan and eat nutella, there's no "not quite" about it.

Obviously if the people in question aren't trying to eat vegan at all, then it's of no concern. [And everything else you said is spot-on.]

bronwyncarlisle
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Bento-ing from: Dunedin › New Zealand
Joined: 12 Jan 2009
User offline. Last seen 1 year 27 weeks ago.
Re: Any other VERY HUNGRY veg*ns out there have trouble ...

Some people do consider themselves to be vegan "with exceptions". I know two people who are vegan except for muttonbird - which is actually something that many omnivores have problems with eating. And then there are degrees of veganism; some will eat honey, for instance, and some will wear leather where others won't. It sort of depends on your reasons for being vegan in the first place.

Jenni
Bento-ing from: Marietta › Georgia › USA
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
User offline. Last seen 3 years 46 weeks ago.
Re: Any other VERY HUNGRY veg*ns out there have trouble ...

Thanks for your input! I left this thread for a while because it was just ticking me off (I know everyone here *means* well...), but I also found shortly after posting it that fat seems to play an important role for me as well. I try to cook at least one part of each meal in a bit of oil, and it does seem to help. I also try to drink more water. In fact, I have finally reached the point where for the most part I don't even want sodas or juice anymore, just ice cold water. I also rarely have any interest in processed meat-replacement foods. Veggie dogs and burgers will always have a place at summer cookouts and such, but otherwise... can't I just have some REAL food? I love a good bowl of soup, too, and really need to get a good thermos for meals this winter.

I think the acidic stomach "hunger" feeling could certainly be part of my problem. Given the amount of stress I have been under for the past 3 years, I'm honestly surprised I haven't had a total melt down and wound up hospitalized. Ahh, life! What's the deal with the clay drink? Would just taking antacid tablets have the same effect?

Jenni
Bento-ing from: Marietta › Georgia › USA
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
User offline. Last seen 3 years 46 weeks ago.
Re: Any other VERY HUNGRY veg*ns out there have trouble ...

Thanks! That does sound interesting. It sounds like it basically boils down to something I am trying to do anyway: I can eat all the raw or lightly steamed fruits and veggies I want, and I'm trying to keep my portions of rice and other starchy carbs relatively small. I cook some veggies in a small amount of oil because they just taste better that way, but I try not to over do it. It's hard to count calories all the time, so I'm really just trying to figure out a few basic and easy to make hot dishes that I don't get sick of, because sometimes I just need a warm meal to be satisfied, and snack on fresh produce the rest of the time.

But how is it possible to eat all the pasta/rice/noodles you want and still lose weight??? I can eat quite a lot of pasta, especially if it's in a nice sauce...

Loretta
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Bento-ing from: London › UK
Joined: 4 Mar 2009
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Re: Any other VERY HUNGRY veg*ns out there have trouble ...

According to the BBC, soup is the key
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8068733.stm
The interesting part is how different water is from soup for the stomach, the consistency is more important than the volume.

They also did another test on a program that gave 10 tips for losing weight which suggested that protein makes you feel full for longer, but that you only needed to up the protein content of a meal (such as breakfast) to about 10% to feel the effects.
I guess this explains why I think that the heavy breads with beans like chickpeas in them that I occasionally make in the bread maker are so filling.

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